Loved this piece and the call to ask better questions of parents- so many conversations could benefit from this mindset! I also think that as time goes on and we adjust to the added work and responsibilities, it becomes easier to find the joy in parenting. Early motherhood was tough for me and it’s taken me years to transition into the role, but now almost 3 years (and multiple kids) in, I feel much lighter and more fulfilled.
so agree. there are so many news stories that have headlines like: "The truth about motherhood" and they are about first time parents of babies. that is A truth, but not the truth. motherhood is so so so many things.
As I read this piece, I was all prepared to come in with my comment that happiness shouldn’t be the goal or purpose of having kids, and then I got to the end 😅. It’s something I think about every time this conversation comes up in popular discourse like with this Chappell Roan thing: Does parenting make me “happier” than if I didn’t have kids? Probably not. It’s really hard, for a multitude of reasons. But my kids give me so much purpose and meaning, and raising them feels like the most important thing I’m doing. And the moments of joy I DO have because of them are so much bigger and more fulfilling than the happiness I feel from other sources. Anyway, thanks for this conversation!
thanks for reading! and yes the feeling that the happiness question just isn't quite right was really in many ways what inspired me to dive into how care changes us for my book. I have come around to it as a useful way to talk about the lack of a support on a collective level...but find it absolutely ridiculous when contemplating the role parenting plays in our lives and psyches!
Parenting is a paradox. You can be simultaneous elated and energized and tired and depressed. But “happy” is not a word I would use to describe it. Seems too tepid somehow. Almost like a toddler getting a piece of chocolate. The toddler is happy. But I would not say parenting and that particular emotion have much in common.
yeah if you go in looking for day to day happiness...good luck. I will say I experience far more of that now that my kids are older and self-sufficient. I can leave them home alone...that was a huge transition that definitely made my husband and I happier, and it involves not being with them hahaha.
I’d like to see a more longtitudinal attitude to this. It’s easier to think that parenting makes us happy or unhappy when we’ve only been in it for a decade or so (no disrespect meant - the days are long and all!). The nature of it is that it’s immersive and overwhelming, whether in a positive or negative sense; we need time to put feelings into perspective.
For me, I agree that the idea that mothering might make anyone hally or unhappy is the wrong question, or perhaps the wrong focus. I also know now, 3 decades into it, that it is way beyond either simplification. I say that from the pov of finding enormous meaning in it, and recognising that that has meant I’ve constructed an identity around it. And it’s the identification with the role that allows me to think I’m happy or unhappy. Motherhood has brought me the greatest joy of my life, and broken my heart (maybe irreperably - jury’s out right now) like I had no idea was possible.
such a beautiful description. thank you for sharing! I think you get at such a hard part of this. Our selves/ lives get so entangled with our kids (and not necessarily in an unhealthy way/ more just this is the nature of dependency relationships), it can be really hard to isolate parenting as a factor that makes you happy or unhappy longterm. My understanding of the data is that people who have cared for others do report finding more meaning in life, and finding purpose and satisfaction. Now we need to keep fighting for better care conditions so more people can feel the good stuff from care, and less of the bad stuff.
I love this, THANK YOU. I too have found parenting to be a "net good" - and I appreciate your writing on the top so much, Elissa -- but I also think there are vital questions here surrounding the context of how and when each person decides to become a parent. Similar to your questions about partnership, equity, support systems and childcare (!!), I have questions like: at what age did you become a mom? Did you have a chance to develop as a person? Were you ready to give up a piece of your "freedom" in order to put someone else's needs first? Did you feel you'd had enough time to explore? To get lost? Are you ready to be a North Star for someone else?
For instance, Chappell Roan is 27, and I don't think I'd have enjoyed motherhood half as much if I'd had my son at that particular age (the age I got into graduate school and committed to myself as a writer). Furthermore, as you yourself point out, some of the happiness and unhappiness we experience in life has nothing to do with parenthood but with our own resilience in the face of chaos, disappointment and/or struggle. Life is hard, with or without kids. And also, beautiful. With or without.
yes to all the above! I am very glad I had my first kid at 32 vs 22, or even 25. Though also want to throw in the mix that if moms had more support, having kids would be less of an end to their freedom, and sense of "becoming" outside of motherhood.
I wonder if Chappell Roan’s friends told her they are unhappy of if she sees what her friends do as parents just assumes they are unhappy. Either way the issue is that we have a bad definition of happiness. It seems mostly to mean getting to do what you want when you want. In that sense, yeah parent is probably a bad choice. But that’s a bad definition of happiness at least in the longer term if not the short term. Mostly I know that I have 5 kids and that means my life is full of love. And that makes me happy even on days when my three year old is being difficult.
Agree that this cuts right to the heart of our definition of the good life, and how parenting and caregiving was left out of it (apart from the cheap sentimental version).
I was working on a piece that connects so much with this literally right before I opened this post. And yes, meaning over happiness! And yes, more support for caregivers! Let's talk about the more important things here.
Loved this piece and the call to ask better questions of parents- so many conversations could benefit from this mindset! I also think that as time goes on and we adjust to the added work and responsibilities, it becomes easier to find the joy in parenting. Early motherhood was tough for me and it’s taken me years to transition into the role, but now almost 3 years (and multiple kids) in, I feel much lighter and more fulfilled.
so agree. there are so many news stories that have headlines like: "The truth about motherhood" and they are about first time parents of babies. that is A truth, but not the truth. motherhood is so so so many things.
Happiness is such a poor measure for a mutlitude of life experiences, especially complex ones like parenthood. Excellent piece, Elissa.
happy is such a bad metric for most, if not all, of our richest relationships
As I read this piece, I was all prepared to come in with my comment that happiness shouldn’t be the goal or purpose of having kids, and then I got to the end 😅. It’s something I think about every time this conversation comes up in popular discourse like with this Chappell Roan thing: Does parenting make me “happier” than if I didn’t have kids? Probably not. It’s really hard, for a multitude of reasons. But my kids give me so much purpose and meaning, and raising them feels like the most important thing I’m doing. And the moments of joy I DO have because of them are so much bigger and more fulfilling than the happiness I feel from other sources. Anyway, thanks for this conversation!
thanks for reading! and yes the feeling that the happiness question just isn't quite right was really in many ways what inspired me to dive into how care changes us for my book. I have come around to it as a useful way to talk about the lack of a support on a collective level...but find it absolutely ridiculous when contemplating the role parenting plays in our lives and psyches!
Parenting is a paradox. You can be simultaneous elated and energized and tired and depressed. But “happy” is not a word I would use to describe it. Seems too tepid somehow. Almost like a toddler getting a piece of chocolate. The toddler is happy. But I would not say parenting and that particular emotion have much in common.
yeah if you go in looking for day to day happiness...good luck. I will say I experience far more of that now that my kids are older and self-sufficient. I can leave them home alone...that was a huge transition that definitely made my husband and I happier, and it involves not being with them hahaha.
you immediately came to mind when I read her quotes from that interview! 😁♥️
good to know I have a reputation! That I like!!
I’d like to see a more longtitudinal attitude to this. It’s easier to think that parenting makes us happy or unhappy when we’ve only been in it for a decade or so (no disrespect meant - the days are long and all!). The nature of it is that it’s immersive and overwhelming, whether in a positive or negative sense; we need time to put feelings into perspective.
For me, I agree that the idea that mothering might make anyone hally or unhappy is the wrong question, or perhaps the wrong focus. I also know now, 3 decades into it, that it is way beyond either simplification. I say that from the pov of finding enormous meaning in it, and recognising that that has meant I’ve constructed an identity around it. And it’s the identification with the role that allows me to think I’m happy or unhappy. Motherhood has brought me the greatest joy of my life, and broken my heart (maybe irreperably - jury’s out right now) like I had no idea was possible.
such a beautiful description. thank you for sharing! I think you get at such a hard part of this. Our selves/ lives get so entangled with our kids (and not necessarily in an unhealthy way/ more just this is the nature of dependency relationships), it can be really hard to isolate parenting as a factor that makes you happy or unhappy longterm. My understanding of the data is that people who have cared for others do report finding more meaning in life, and finding purpose and satisfaction. Now we need to keep fighting for better care conditions so more people can feel the good stuff from care, and less of the bad stuff.
Love this. Meaning is a much better framework than happiness. Happiness is fleeting - meaning endures.
thank you!
So good!! Agree wholeheartedly with all of it
thank you!
I love this, THANK YOU. I too have found parenting to be a "net good" - and I appreciate your writing on the top so much, Elissa -- but I also think there are vital questions here surrounding the context of how and when each person decides to become a parent. Similar to your questions about partnership, equity, support systems and childcare (!!), I have questions like: at what age did you become a mom? Did you have a chance to develop as a person? Were you ready to give up a piece of your "freedom" in order to put someone else's needs first? Did you feel you'd had enough time to explore? To get lost? Are you ready to be a North Star for someone else?
For instance, Chappell Roan is 27, and I don't think I'd have enjoyed motherhood half as much if I'd had my son at that particular age (the age I got into graduate school and committed to myself as a writer). Furthermore, as you yourself point out, some of the happiness and unhappiness we experience in life has nothing to do with parenthood but with our own resilience in the face of chaos, disappointment and/or struggle. Life is hard, with or without kids. And also, beautiful. With or without.
yes to all the above! I am very glad I had my first kid at 32 vs 22, or even 25. Though also want to throw in the mix that if moms had more support, having kids would be less of an end to their freedom, and sense of "becoming" outside of motherhood.
Totally.
I wonder if Chappell Roan’s friends told her they are unhappy of if she sees what her friends do as parents just assumes they are unhappy. Either way the issue is that we have a bad definition of happiness. It seems mostly to mean getting to do what you want when you want. In that sense, yeah parent is probably a bad choice. But that’s a bad definition of happiness at least in the longer term if not the short term. Mostly I know that I have 5 kids and that means my life is full of love. And that makes me happy even on days when my three year old is being difficult.
Agree that this cuts right to the heart of our definition of the good life, and how parenting and caregiving was left out of it (apart from the cheap sentimental version).
I was working on a piece that connects so much with this literally right before I opened this post. And yes, meaning over happiness! And yes, more support for caregivers! Let's talk about the more important things here.
can't wait to read your piece! and yes, the same ol conversation about this stuff benefits no one.
It may be a while... I'm struggling to figure out where this one is actually going!